Have you ever found yourself constantly chasing an ideal of perfection in your relationships? Perhaps you felt the need to put on a facade or act a certain way to attract a partner. But what happens when the chase is over? When the real you is revealed, and it's not what your partner was expecting? Join me as we unravel the layers of perfectionism and control that can harm our relationships. We'll discuss the importance of emotional intelligence, recognizing our own triggers, and embracing the spiritual aspects of love. I'll be sharing personal stories, lessons learned, and insights gained from my own journey and working with countless clients. Together, we'll explore the pitfalls of perfectionism and discover how letting go of the need to be perfect can actually lead us to deeper and more fulfilling connections. So sit back, relax, and get ready to dive into the paradox of perfection. Continue On Your Journey: Lisa Shield | YouTube | Facebook | Instagram | Book a Call With Lisa Email the podcast at: podcast@lisashield.com
What You'll Hear In This Episode:
- Partners feeling uncomfortable when not in control and sabotaging relationships
- Self-reflection and confronting the darker side
- Dating as an opportunity to work through these behaviors
- Emotional availability vs. moving at a different pace
- The significance of the spiritual component in relationships
- Learning to give unconditional love to receive it
- Finding a partner to respect, admire, and accept
- Letting go of perfectionism and inner critic
- Creating a safe space for failure
Key quotes:
"Some women hold themselves to impossibly high standards. And then, when they get into relationships which are unpredictable and unknown territory, it triggers a lot of insecurities and brings certain unattractive behaviors to the surface.” – Lisa Shield
“Some women are not only hard on men when they don't get what they want, but they’re also hard on themselves when they have to look at their own dark side." — Lisa Shield
"I have seen women let their corporate, high-achiever mentality spill over into their love lives. This can be a turn-off for men who don't want that in their relationships with women." — Lisa Shield
"Some women take it personally when a man isn't moving at their pace and saying and doing the things they feel he should be by a certain time. Their arbitrary timelines can cause them to sabotage relationships with good men who just need time to catch up to them." — Lisa Shield
"One of the mistakes I see many people make with personal growth work is that they get it intellectually, they get it conceptually, but they don't out it into practice." — Lisa Shield
"We all have to look at how to accept ourselves. To do that, we have to accept that we’re human and fallible and learn to love ourselves even with all of our imperfections." — Lisa Shield
“To be a loving, emotionally intelligent adult in a relationship, starts with letting go of the need to be perfect." — Lisa Shield
Continue On Your Journey:
Lisa Shield | YouTube | Facebook | Instagram | Book a Call With Lisa
Email the podcast at: podcast@lisashield.com
Lisa Shield [00:00:03]:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to finding the guardian of your soul. I'm Lisa Shield, and it's lovely to be here with you. Today I am going to talk about the paradox of perfection. Why striving for flawlessness could be derailing love. And this topic usually I look around at what's going on in our groups and our coaching programs with the women that we're working with, and I try to observe themes that I feel are relevant. Especially. One of the things that I'm noticing is that whenever something kind of upsets me, wherever I start to feel a little disturbed about a pattern I'm noticing with my clients or something that other love coaches are saying, and it really ticks me off. It usually means that that's a topic I need to cover in a Facebook Live or on a podcast episode.
Lisa Shield [00:01:10]:
So here we are. Lately, the theme that's been coming up with a lot of clients is this idea of perfectionism and control. So along with perfectionism come, I think, or what I'm observing is underneath that is a lot of desire to control people and circumstances and even oneself, right? So what I'm seeing is a lot of women who are very strong and successful, they have built identities around being go getters the kind of women who can just get things done. They hold themselves to what I think are impossibly high standards. And then when they get into relationships which are unpredictable, they're unknown territory, and they can trigger a lot of insecurities and bring certain unattractive behaviors to the surface. When that happens, they have to face things about themselves that they don't want to face and see behaviors that may be childish and immature, demanding, controlling, and then they push men away. So this is a really unfortunate pattern. It's hard to watch women going through it because we see sometimes relationships being blown up unintentionally, but because they can't get what they want or get the guy to do what they want.
Lisa Shield [00:03:05]:
And it's so uncomfortable for them not to be in complete control of the situation that sometimes what happens is they may sabotage something and then regret it after the fact. And what I see is sometimes how hard these women are not just on men when they don't get what they want, but then how hard they are on themselves when they have to look at their dark side or as some people say, their shadow side. I happen to believe that dating is one of the most incredible experiences we can go through so that we can work out and work through these behaviors. And I think it takes a lot of courage for a woman to do that. Most of us have these fantasies that we're just going to meet the right guy, everything's going to line up and we're going to live happily ever after. And it doesn't work that way. If there are things that you're doing wrong, well, wrong, I'm just going to use that word if you're behaving in ways that are manipulative, controlling, demanding, needy, and a man feels like you're trying to get your happiness at his expense. A lot of these guys just are not going to stick around.
Lisa Shield [00:04:34]:
They're going to say, this is too intense, this is too much work, and they're going to walk away. And it doesn't mean that these men are all avoidant. It doesn't mean that they're emotionally unavailable. In some ways, these guys might actually be very emotionally available, but they don't feel heard themselves. They don't feel with certain women, like there's room in the relationship for them. And so a lot of guys just stop calling or they break off relationships or things explode, and then they get a real sense of what the relationship is going to look like down the line, and they walk away. And these stories that we women tell ourselves, like, well, if he really cared or if he really was in love with me, then he would give me another chance. But I know for myself, once I started to really get clear about relationships and human behavior, there was a certain level of emotional intelligence that I had achieved within myself and that I expected from a partner.
Lisa Shield [00:05:58]:
And when I saw certain behaviors and I saw the writing on the wall, once I got clear about how emotionally intelligent a man was, I would walk away and I would just cut my losses. I had a man right before I met Benjamin, I'd never heard the word avoidant before. It was way before I read the book. Attached. Or Men Who Can't Love. And he was so egregious. He started in the beginning, he pursued me, and for a number of reasons, I thought that this might have been my guy. I decided to go for it and give it a chance.
Lisa Shield [00:06:45]:
And very quickly, he started to exhibit what I now understand is avoidant behavior, avoidant personality disorder. And he started to pull away, get hot and cold, distance himself from me. And this only happened over the course of six very short weeks, but six very intense weeks because we took a vacation together during that time. That was miserable. And once I got clear on what was going on that this person just was not ready to have the kind of relationship I wanted, I cut it off. There was no going back. And he did reach out to me a couple of times to try to reconcile after I ended it, and it was a clear, hard no for me. Now, a lot of women, a lot of people would say, yeah, but shouldn't you have given it a chance? And whatever.
Lisa Shield [00:07:48]:
That kind of behavior was so extreme and so egregious and so hurtful. It was really hurtful what he did and how he attacked me and did this character assassination of me that I just thought, I don't want to be in a relationship with somebody who doesn't like me. And I thought that these behaviors were so deeply ingrained that it would have taken years of therapy for this man to change if he could have, if he even could have. And I just wasn't willing to go through that with him. I'd been in a 13 year marriage with my ex husband who in the very, very end I realized was a pathological liar. And I knew by that point that somebody had to show up, as they say. He had to be in move in condition. Like, I did not want another fixer upper and I knew I wasn't a fixer upper anymore so I walked away.
Lisa Shield [00:09:01]:
And I can see where certain behaviors are just like writing on the wall. It's like neon signs for men. Get the hell out of here. Run as fast as you can. And these behaviors as much as we want to think, oh, I'm so spiritual, and I'm on a personal growth path and all. One of the problems is that when it comes to falling in love, surrendering to a relationship and to a partnership with another person, it can be so frightening for some of us that we really do get so scared in that process that we become intense. Like the intensity that I see some women exhibit is just it has to short circuit men. And what often happens is when things derail, when you're in it, when you're in it and you're trying to reconcile and work through things, that's one thing.
Lisa Shield [00:10:17]:
But then once things derail and one person sits back and really sits with what's going on they can start to see that this is much deeper than they thought and that it's probably better to cut their losses and leave rather than keep trying and waiting and seeing if something can get worked out. So a lot of women in the corporate world especially are conditioned to chase milestones relentlessly as they go up the corporate ladder. It has rigorous metrics of success and it often pushes women to adopt a very masculine orientation to their lives. They become very determined and they have a goal oriented mindset. And what happens is this becomes the way they start to do their personal relationships as well or their romantic relationships. And when that pursuit, that mentality of achievement spills over into their love lives it can make it very challenging for men who don't want that in their love lives, in their relationships with women. They get that all day long at work with other men in the corporate world and they do not want to have that kind of dynamic with a woman. They don't want everything to feel like a business.
Lisa Shield [00:12:06]:
So women very often subconsciously might not even realize that they're setting agendas when it comes to love and that they're really doing the same thing in work. Like, they have these goals. I want to get engaged after a year. I want to get married a year after that, I want to start having babies at this point. I want to buy a house. I mean, a lot of women, they have these very specific goals and milestones, and they come into a romantic relationship and they start pushing that agenda. And a man can feel it. And there's nothing organic about that.
Lisa Shield [00:12:58]:
A man may need more time, he may move more slowly than a woman. He may feel that he's gone through a divorce or other bad relationships, and he needs time to see if this is the right partner. And a woman who has an agenda and milestones that she's trying to hit may miss all of that and not make room for a man who may be moving at a different pace and may be looking for different signs than she is of whether or not she's the right partner for him. And when they have this perfectionism facade, a lot of these women start to take it personally when a man isn't moving at her pace and saying and doing the things she feels he should be by a certain time. And then what happens is that woman can start to get manipulative and controlling, and it doesn't feel for the guy like this relationship is progressing naturally. He starts to feel manipulated and boxed into these predefined roles and timelines, and it actually starts to have the opposite effect of what she wants. She starts negotiating, she starts getting anxious, and it really will derail all of this. One of the hardest things, I think, for anybody, woman or man, to understand is that there really is this incredible spiritual component to developing a romantic relationship.
Lisa Shield [00:14:52]:
And if you do not respect the spiritual tenets of how this has to unfold, there are no timelines, there is no agenda. It really is a much more spiritual dance than a timeline, right? An agenda, a calendar, milestones. When I was doing all, before I met my husband, I had been doing a lot of personal growth work. One of the mistakes I see many people make with personal growth work is that they get it intellectually, they get it conceptually, but they don't really live it. They're not really applying it to their day to day lives and using those tools to evolve themselves. So when I was doing this work, I was in a group with Don Miguel Ruiz, and I got my master's in spiritual psychology. I was in a twelve step program. All of these things were spiritual paths, each one of them Twelve Step, my work with Don Miguel and my master's in spiritual psychology.
Lisa Shield [00:16:19]:
And what I realized at some point when I was doing all this work was that the epiphanies I would get, where I would go, AHA, I get this. It makes sense. I understand. It only were good insofar as I then implemented whatever insight or breakthrough I had into my way of beingness right, my way of being. And so I focused more on how do I put these spiritual principles into practice. And when I met Benjamin, love wasn't about an agenda. It was this beautiful spiritual dance. My goal was not to find a soulmate or a partner or a companion.
Lisa Shield [00:17:14]:
My goal was to find unconditional love. That's what I wanted, a truly unconditionally loving relationship. And when I looked at almost all the spiritual paths that I had been going down, I realized that every single one of those paths was a different way of reaching unconditional love. And I had always thought unconditional love was some ideal, but it wasn't real. And I began to see that, no, this really was real, but that in order to have or receive unconditional love, I had to first be willing to give it. Which meant I had to find a man who I respected, who I admired, who I didn't want to fix and change, and who I could accept exactly the way he is. And I know that doesn't sound like an easy thing to do, but I had to let go of my own inner critic. I had to let go of my perfectionist facade that I was this perfectionist thing that I was running on myself.
Lisa Shield [00:18:29]:
And I had to look at how do I love and accept myself? How do I make room for myself to be human, to be fallible and still love myself even with all my imperfections? And so there were two sides to this coin. Number one, finding a man who I expected, respected and admired and felt was my greatest teacher. And also to be able to humble myself, accept my own flaws and be able to love myself. Especially in the moments where I made a mistake, right, and not expect myself to get it right all the time like I had in the past. When I did that to myself, it was almost impossible to grow because there was a time where I was so incredibly hard on myself, I beat myself up so badly over every single little misstep that it made it impossible for me to take risks and chances. And that's the only way we're going to learn and grow is to get out of our comfort zone where we don't have all the answers, where it's not safe, and be willing to not bungee jump and jump out of airplanes. Those may be thrilling things to do, but it's just as thrilling to step out of your comfort zone in your own life and risk, right? Take risks and step into unknown territories and see what you're made of, right? And so I started to learn how to do that. And part of being able to make it safe for me to do that meant that I had to be willing to fail.
Lisa Shield [00:20:31]:
I had to be okay with failing and not feeling like a failure when I did. There's a difference between failing at something and feeling like a failure. So right now we have this beautiful, beautiful woman going through our program and instead of saying, wow, that didn't work, or I made a mistake she basically defaults to feeling like a failure. I'm not getting it. It's not making sense. Maybe I'm not Coachable. And so she sets herself up to fail, but because she keeps telling herself she's a failure and I see other women do this, too. They make a mistake.
Lisa Shield [00:21:29]:
They do something that they feel ashamed or embarrassed of, and then they beat themselves up and feel like failures for what they did. And it's the self flagellation, the self punishment that makes it so hard to be them. We're all going to make mistakes. We're all going to get it wrong before we get it right. It's just how it goes. Like, you cannot master having a relationship like I have with my husband and have had for 21 years without making a lot of mistakes and learning what works and doesn't work. I mean, I had a hell of a time in relationships. I was bullied, teased.
Lisa Shield [00:22:21]:
My mother and father were incredibly and my grandmother, when my mother passed away, were incredibly critical, judgmental. They were hard on me. My brother teased me. The kids at school teased me. I had to find myself. I had to love myself no matter what other people were saying. I had to learn that maybe there were things I did that turned people off. Maybe I'm not perfect, but there was a time in my life where I was walking on eggshells and tiptoeing through life because I was so afraid to make a mistake.
Lisa Shield [00:23:07]:
And when I did draw attention to myself, a lot of times I attracted the wrong attention. And so I finally just decided to love myself and be kind to myself and really learn how to be with myself. In my darkest times, I learned how to say, lisa, look, you tried. You really tried. You gave it your best shot. We all have blind spots. There are things we don't know. We don't know until we do.
Lisa Shield [00:23:48]:
And nobody can get it right 100% of the time. It's impossible. And if you're going to learn and if you're going to grow, then I'm going to be loving and kind and I'm going to be that wonderful mother, that loving and accepting parent to you that you never had. And I started to talk to myself with this kinder voice. In fact, I actually developed this persona, this character. I called him my spiritual guide in my program, in my twelve week course. When my clients do this, they call it their naked data. But I actually consciously created this spiritual guide.
Lisa Shield [00:24:45]:
I thought, why do I want to talk to Jesus or Buddha or whatever? I'll just make up my own spiritual guide which was really my higher self. And I started to have conversations with that part of me. His name was Know. And I would sit and meditate and talk to him about all the things that were going on, the things I didn't understand, and he would give me wise advice. He was this little Indian guy. He looked like a cross between Gandhi and Merlin. And he was light and funny, and he made me laugh, and he helped me talking to him. Doing these meditations with Pintangeli helped me find that voice inside myself, that loving part of me, so that I didn't have to beat myself up the way my mother and my father and the kids at school had done.
Lisa Shield [00:25:47]:
And what happened was it became a whole lot more beautiful inside my own head. It wasn't some positive thinking kind of mentality. Pantanjali was very honest and real, but he was also very loving and caring and compassionate with me. And so I developed that part of myself by doing these meditations, and I became kinder and kinder with me and much more accepting. And that's what made it possible for me to navigate a relationship with a man like my husband. Because here's the thing. Benjamin is the kindest and most loving person I've ever known, and he wouldn't be mean or hurt a soul, but he's also the strongest person I've ever met, and he has impeccable boundaries. And if I would have been careless and messy emotionally, he wouldn't have been mean to me, but he would have walked away.
Lisa Shield [00:27:08]:
He wouldn't have put up with it. And I could have sat there and said, well, if he loved me or he cared about me, he should have given me another chance. Well, no, I would have respected him for not letting me treat him that way. And love doesn't mean that you accept emotional abuse from another person or that you sit around and wish and hope and pray that somebody can get it and grow up in time to have a relationship with you. Growing up, getting it can sometimes take a long time. And those triggers, those trauma responses, can be very deep, and it's not like something just happens and you instantly work it all out and stop doing those things. It doesn't work that way. And some people who are really emotionally intelligent and evolved, they just don't want to wait for somebody else to get it.
Lisa Shield [00:28:19]:
Look, it took me years, years and countless hours of work on myself to get to where I am today, where I don't take most things personally. I used to be the walking wounded. I mean, I was a target. I thought I had a target on my back, and everybody was out to get me. That was my story. And now, sure, some things affect me. Sometimes there's a nasty client or somebody who's just egregious, and it's like you feel like you've been slimed by somebody else's negativity. And there are those moments where it's like, wow, that's persons living a miserable life.
Lisa Shield [00:29:12]:
I just had an incident like that with a woman who signed up to do our course, and then it's very rare when something like this happens. But she wanted to back out, and the way she handled it was just awful. What it tells us is why she's still single. There was no need for her to come at us the way she did. I mean, all she had to do was say, look, this isn't the right time. I don't feel like I can concentrate on the program, and would you please consider giving me a refund? It would have been that simple. And instead, if you all had seen the messages she had written, it was like, Whoa. And it just came out.
Lisa Shield [00:30:02]:
I mean, we had done nothing to warrant that kind of attack on her part, so that's what was so disarming about it. But of course, I had a day where I was a little shaken by it, but I knew it wasn't personal. In the end, I knew that this is how this person goes through life. So learning how to navigate all of this and being able to be an adult, a loving, emotionally intelligent adult in a relationship, starts with letting go of this need to be perfect. The idea that you even can be perfect and perfect, according to whom? We have a client right now that if she had taken a deep breath and not been so reactive, and if things hadn't just been so magnified in her head, and if she had been more measured, things would have gone differently between her and the guy that she's seeing. But because she wants things the way she wants them, she wants it to be according to her perfect plan that works for her, but wasn't working for him. And every time something came up, there was just this incredible, severe reaction when she couldn't control the outcome to the point where she blew up the relationship. And now they're having to see if this is going to work or not.
Lisa Shield [00:31:51]:
It's a heartbreak because she's one of the most beautiful, intelligent women I know, and my fingers are crossed. In her heart of heart, she wants this to work out. And I hope to God that there is an opportunity, a second chance, and that she can. I know she's got everything it takes to be able to work through this. And sometimes you have two wounded people, and when something gets triggered for one, it triggers something for the other person. So we'll see. But you can't be in a guardian of your soul relationship and try to be perfect. I think the reason why Benjamin and I have such a perfect relationship is that neither one of us tries to be perfect.
Lisa Shield [00:32:43]:
We really try to be loving. We try to consider each other in every moment. We look at what's best for the relationship. We want what's best for each other. And we both know that no matter what, there's nothing that we would want. The other person to do that would be at their own expense. I don't want to get my happiness at Benjamin's expense. I want Benjamin to do what's right for him, and I want to know what's right for him.
Lisa Shield [00:33:19]:
And I want to see if I can always meet Know. We always seem because we have each other's best interest at heart, and we have the best interest of our relationship at heart, we're able to very gracefully navigate always back to center, and we don't drift very far away from that ever, because we don't want to be perfect. We want to do the right thing for one another, and we don't have any. Know, when we came to Santa Fe during the pandemic, we moved here. We didn't move here. We actually came on vacation. And there was something inside of me I just wanted to get out of La. I didn't know if we'd move or what would happen, but I thought maybe a move, a change would be a good thing.
Lisa Shield [00:34:15]:
And at know, Benjamin, I wanted to come for three months. He wanted to come for a month. I think we compromised on two months. And then he said, call the airbnb and see if we can stay another month. And little by little, he started to really fall in love with Santa Fe. And it was always in the back of my mind that maybe we would move here. But then he's the one who said, let's go look at some houses. La.
Lisa Shield [00:34:46]:
Is getting further and further away in the rear view mirror, and here we are. We've been here almost three years now, and it was just the most beautiful, fluid decision for both of us. We never even had a conversation about it. We just both came towards the center and bought a house and have created our own little paradise here. So I would really start to look at your perfectionism. I think a lot of women have it. My husband and I were talking about why that is. And part of one of the things that came up when we were talking yesterday about this was that many women are often taught that men are going to pursue them.
Lisa Shield [00:35:48]:
And so in order to be pursued, women have to be the bait. And so within that mentality of getting a guy to pursue you, it's like, well, how do I make myself? How do I be pretty? How do I have all the meet all the standards? So women often wind up putting on an act or a facade so that they can become a stereotype of what they think men are looking for. And then the saddest thing is they may capture a guy's attention by following that advice and becoming bait in that kind of scenario. But then what happens is when the chase is over and the real relationship begins, you're not bait. You're not a stereotype. You're a real human being with needs and wants and desires and emotions, and sometimes that does get messy. And so a guy thinks he's getting one thing and then he sees the real you, and that doesn't work, so you can't do that. One of the most beautiful things I read lately is that relationships should not be set up on this pursuit mentality like a guy.
Lisa Shield [00:37:16]:
Men love to chase women. There are some men who do love the chase. Look, a man is going to have to work to get your if you're a beautiful, put together woman who's got a great life and all, and you really are a prize if you're hard to get, you're hard to get by nature of who you are. You don't have to play hard to get, right? Do you get that? I was hard to get. I had high standards. I didn't have to make a game or a manipulation out of that or pretend, do I text him or don't I text him, what do I say? All that stuff. I didn't have to do that. My standards were so high that the guy that was going to capture my attention was going to be an amazing guy.
Lisa Shield [00:38:12]:
So I didn't have to put on a game or let a guy chase me. Having said that, real relationships should be based on mutual interest. Two people who genuinely see, wow, we have a lot in common. This is something worth exploring. And not just chemistry. You have to be building not just physical chemistry, but emotional chemistry, real connection. And you have to give that emotional chemistry time to build before you act on the physical chemistry. So that's what real relationships, real, mature, adult relationships are built on.
Lisa Shield [00:38:59]:
Mutual interest, not a man chasing a woman. When I met Benjamin, from day one, if I wanted to pick up the phone and call him, I did. If I wanted to invite him to go to an event or something that I was going to, I did. I didn't call my girlfriends and say, do you think it's too soon? Will he think I'm chasing him? Do you think it's going to look like I'm desperate? Bullshit. He didn't think that for 1 second. In fact, when Benjamin and I first met, I was incredibly busy. I had an importing business. I had a friend coming from Great Britain to visit with his sister.
Lisa Shield [00:39:41]:
I was busy. And in order for Benjamin to even find time to see me, I had to include him in some of my plans or it would have been weeks before we could have gotten together. And so I said, Look, I have a friend coming from Great Britain. Would you like to join us? There was a meditation I wanted to go we were going to go to. I said, do you want to come to this meditation? And it was just very fluid. It was two grown adults who really liked each other, getting to know and explore what was possible. So let go of your perfection. Let go of your agendas.
Lisa Shield [00:40:27]:
Stop thinking that there's a perfect way to get the guy and be you. Be real. Be authentic. Love yourself. Stop setting these impossibly high standards. Start making it a joy to be in your own head. Learn how to love yourself, to speak to yourself with grace and kindness and compassion, especially when you get it wrong. Because you know what? We're going to all get it wrong.
Lisa Shield [00:41:03]:
And the more pressure you put on yourself, the more the intensity builds. And the more the intensity builds, the bigger messes you make. So start being kind and gentle and self accepting so that you're a pleasure to be with and be around. And men, wonderful men, will come into your life, and hopefully you'll find your Benjamin. I'm Lisa shield. I would love it if you would go to my website, lisashield.com. You will see a button there all over the website. Click it.
Lisa Shield [00:41:40]:
That will take you to my free 45 minutes presentation. If you watch that and you like what you hear and you really want to get this solved, you're sick and tired of troubleshooting and reading book after book and thinking you're going to figure it out on your own. And you want a proven plan that worked for me and hundreds of clients like me, then please click the state at the end of that presentation so you can book a call with a member of my team and find out how we can help you find the guardian of your soul. You can send us your requests for future topics to podcast@lisashield.com and finally give us a thumbs up a like. You can also give us your feedback. If you like us, let us know. If you don't like us, let us know. Let us know how we can improve things.
Lisa Shield [00:42:35]:
We're all ears. We don't just want sure. Do I want five stars. Absolutely. But if you're not loving this broadcast, then please let me know how I can improve it. That's what I'm here for. I want to make this content as relevant as I possibly can. Thank you for listening.
Lisa Shield [00:42:58]:
I look forward to seeing you again. And tune in also for our other episode I do with my husband called Getting Inside the Right Male Mind. If you want to hear how a great man thinks, then you don't want to miss that broadcast. Have a wonderful rest of your day and I'll see you next time. Bye.